Hutchinson Leader - Doctors Kill 4,200 Babies Today in America - Comments

How can a good God allow

arnijodi — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:47:46 -0500

How can a good God allow evil and suffering?

Read this insightful article taken from:

http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/questions-of-christians/how-c...

There may be several reasons for suffering. A major factor is our fallen, sinful world. Because of sin, throughout the ages, the perfection and goodness of the world is tainted. We experience illness, disease, natural disasters, hunger, and all types of suffering.

As mortals, we cannot know all of God's reasons. But, God loves us enough to give us free will. We are not robots. As a result, people make mistakes. People turn away from God's perfect goodness through sin.

Thus, our own choices sometimes produce evil over good. It is impossible for God to have created man with free will and evil not be a consequence. Also, the choices of others (including previous generations) can produce suffering. The consequences of bad choices sometimes affect not only the person who makes the wrong choice but also their family, friends, and sometimes even society.

The Old and New Testaments make it clear that suffering can be a result of God's discipline in our lives—similar to the discipline a loving parent has for his child. A loving parent stops a child from putting his hand on a hot stove. The child "suffers" at the moment by being denied access and by the temporary pain of a spanking. But the parent sees the "big picture" and disciplines the child. So, too, can God discipline us. Hebrews 12:10-11 illustrates this point: "...but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it."

Suffering is God's megaphone to a deaf world. Suffering can produce benefits greater than the suffering itself. It can strengthen people, lead people to faith, help us to appreciate the good, and be a tool to influence others. Indeed, suffering can mold us. "Suffering produces perseverance... character... hope...." (Romans 5:3-5). And as apostle Peter relates, "...though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed" (1 Peter 1:5-7). The actual trials of faith are worthwhile and precious as is faith itself! Our faith is strengthened as we rely on Christ to see us through troubling times.

We may not know the reason for suffering in any individual situation. But we can affirm, with relief and joy, that in "all things God works for the good of those who love him" (Romans 8:28). The Psalms are full of cries for deliverance from trouble as well as the assurance that God is with us and will deliver us from suffering.

Our observation is that this issue is used as an excuse by some to try to blame God or to deny God's existence. But on reflection, most will acknowledge that we really cannot blame God for our troubles. Actually, the reality of evil, suffering, and injustice—when considered fully—is an argument for the existence of a good God. Certainly, abandoning God does not make the problem of suffering any easier. Philosopher Alvin Plantinga, as quoted by Tim Keller in his book Reason for God, put it thus:

"Could there really be any such thing as horrifying wickedness [if there were no God and we just evolved]? I don't see how. There can be such a thing only if there is a way that rational creatures are supposed to live, obliged to live....A [secular] way of looking at the world has no place for genuine moral obligation of any sort...and thus no way to say there is such a thing as genuine and appalling wickedness. Accordingly, if you think there really is such a thing as horrifying wickedness (...and not just an illusion of some sort), then you have a powerful...argument [for the reality of God]."

It is the knowledge that God sent His only son to suffer and die for us that our sins are forgiven and that our ultimate suffering will be relieved. As Paul Little proclaims, God is "not only aware of suffering—he feels it. No pain or suffering has ever come to us that has not first passed through the heart and hand of God...Comforting are the words of Isaiah the prophet, foretelling the agony of Christ: 'He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering' (Isaiah 53:3)."

And as Tim Keller comforts the believer, "The Biblical view of things is resurrection—not a future that is just a consolation for the life we never had but a restoration of the life you always wanted. This means that every horrible thing that ever happened will not only be undone and repaired but will in some way make the eventual glory and joy even greater."

Christianity is the only religion or worldview that has an answer to evil and suffering. Eastern religions ignore evil; Darwinism and Communism rely on it; atheism is clueless about it; and Islam has a superficial view of it. Only Christianity provides an answer—that we are living in an abnormal world which God will restore.

When it comes to abortion, I

agatehunter — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:36:49 -0600

When it comes to abortion, I have this to say: Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes it is legal in our country but maybe that's the problem. Our laws need to change.

Think about this: Michael Vick. He didn't kill a person. His crime is against animals and he is sentenced to what, 2 years in prison? Yes I agree what he did is wrong but my beef is why does our country protect animal rights over human rights? Little babies in their Mother's womb can feel the pain of being ripped apart. How desensitized and selfish our society has become. We are the "it's all about me generation" me me me.

And the God I serve doesn't plan rapes, murder and all kinds of unspeakable evil. The god who orchestrates that is named Satan and he wants humanity to blame God for everything that's wrong in the world. God has given us free will. He doesn't make us love Him or serve Him. Today you have a choice who you will serve.

Thanks Arniejodi for being a voice for the unborn.

Oh so that makes it ok for

banderson — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:08:42 -0600

Oh so that makes it ok for you to use it?

If you reread my post I was

flowerladytoo — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:36:00 -0600

If you reread my post I was quoting a previous poster when I used the word "troll".

I may be missing something,

charlie_horse113 — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:10:35 -0600

I may be missing something, but flowerladytoo mentioned good discussions are good but personal attacks are bad. I quite agree...so why would she use the "troll" word and not just say the name of the poster who was the problem? It seems to me that if the "troll" attacks personally it is bad to her but it is ok to perpetuate the personal attacks on someone whose opinion she disagrees with? Seems to me she was using the term to ridicule - is that not what she is against here?

No support from

Madrigorne — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:02:11 -0600

No support from anyone?
Hmm.
I looked in the mirror this morning - and I am still someone.
Who is this We you are referring to, hope you do not include Me in your We.
I support Bandersons right to his beliefs... as I support yours.
Banderson may not believe in a 'next life', I never asked.

Why is it when topics comes

northoftown — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:33:17 -0600

Why is it when topics comes up like gay marriage or abortion or other 'sensitive' topics, religion gets brought into it? Why can't people simply state their opinions without bringing God into it? For example:

"In my OPINION, any form of abortion is wrong. The fetus in that woman's womb is an actual person with a right to live."

"In my OPINION, every child is a blessing. There are a lot of couples who aren't able to have children of their own."

See, that wasn't so hard and I didn't have to bring God into it all because I'm sure He has more important things to worry about than this thread. Oops! I said 'God' and I capitalized the first letter of His name. Oops!

Religion is more of a private matter in my opinion. I am of the Christian faith but I don't go singing my praises from the rooftops when a sensitive topic like this is brought up. Some people say abortion is a woman's right, some say its murder. I say a child has a right to live. Thats just me. It seem like when topics come up like this, everyone seems to have 'found their faith' and must let everyone know about it.

And then, you have, assuming, grown men and women bickering back and forth about something that wasn't even the topic in the first place. Kind of reminds me of the yahoo chat rooms back in the day. This topic went from abortion opinions to religious opinions--and everyone knows that no one wins in religious opinion wars. Move on.

It seems to me since you've

flowerladytoo — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:42:11 -0600

It seems to me since you've started posting the various threads have taken a decidedly nasty note and I no longer enjoy posting or reading these threads. I think I will take the advice of a previous poster and "ignore the troll". Good, thoughtful discussions are one thing, but constantly attacking other posters and ridiculing them is another matter entirely. I wish the Leader Staff could put a stop to all this.

Also note that the ONLY time

banderson — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:02:19 -0600

Also note that the ONLY time I have slammed the bible or religion in general is after you used it against me. Once again sustain your point with out using the bible or religion and I'll listen, plain and simple.

If I don't push my thoughts

banderson — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:00:55 -0600

If I don't push my thoughts and Ideas people like YOU will walk all over them and crush them and true equality and respect may never come.

I do not believe in God and I do not believe in heaven or hell. You wanna know what I believe is "god"? I'm not going to tell you what my religion is because it is none of your business, religion is a personal thing, and thats how it should be.

As far as speaking up and getting no support from anyone...All it takes is one voice, it may start out small but the movement is getting bigger. You may not see it, and you don't need to see it!

Now onto your religion and me. I use your religion against you haha, bet you've never had that done before. I have no way of knowing what religion you believe (unless you tell me) nor do I care, my point of using your bible against you, was to show that you don't know everything. Very Simply The Bible has been used many times in the past to support an idea or value that today most would think is repulsive such as:
1. It was used to protect Slavery
(causing the civil war).
2. It was used to prevent independent women from being equal to their male counterparts
(causing the feminist movement).

And thats just the tip of the iceburg; and that is how I feel it is being used against the homosexuals.

You need to remember that regardless of what you believe that EVERYONE has the right to believe what they choose and live the lifestyles they want without discrimination. This is The United States of America where we promote Freedom, Equality, and Justice for All. The is not "The United State of God" this is not a religion based country, and religion should NOT be involved in government. The forefathers of this country knew that religion can be oppressive and discriminative; that's the reason most of them came over here to get away from the oppressive religions, and oppressive governments.

I for one will not stand and be oppressed or discriminated by anyone! I will fight for equality to my last breath!

Now I know your religion; I know what most of you think on some issues. Plain and simply support your argument without using religion as your crutch, and I won't mention anything more against you religious Christians. I do not have a problem with Christianity when you keep it to yourself, it is legal and to be honest if the government would try to outlaw it I would probably be supporting Christians in their fight to keep it legal...but that day will never come. So now differences aside can we ever get along?

You speak up on politics and

PokerPro — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:02:20 -0600

You speak up on politics and get no support from anyone, but continue to push your thoughts and ideas. We are not for Gay marriage or equal opportunities for your Gay marriages. you use religion when it helps your argument and don't acknowledge it when it is against your beliefs. Time to grow up "Peter Pan."

Perhaps we should have an unbiased view of things....You don't, not even close.

You can say the same about me if you want, but my bias against homosexuality..., well i can live with that. IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT.

Troll? Must be another one

banderson — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 22:24:04 -0600

Troll? Must be another one of those make believe characters you guys believe in...

All joking aside now,

Someone needs to speak up on politics, The Leader doesn't do it, and no one else around here seems to want to.

Just because I see something in a different view then you, or I have ideas that you think won't work doesn't mean that I am wrong, nor does it mean you are right.

Perhaps everyone should have an unbiased view of things, the world would be a much better place.

What I dont understand

FritoBandito — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 20:10:06 -0600

What I dont understand is....why respond to this troll?

Then move to a country that

banderson — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:16:44 -0600

Then move to a country that has a religion based government, I hear they have religious police that come around and whip ya when you sin!

Why do you only read part of

just1opinion — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:07:58 -0600

Why do you only read part of my statement. You are the typical person who 'tries' Christianity. You read the parts that fit your beliefs and leave the rest. I said above that you need to read and study what the Bible says about Satan and his influence. After you have studied (not just read) what it says and what Jesus said about Satan we can continue this discussion. Until then I will consider you ignorant on this subject (the Bible)and I do not carry on debates and/or discussions with ignorant people. Also, you keep saying that Christians need to keep the Bible and God out of these discussions. Well, God makes up the very belief system that I have. Me leaving God out of any discussion would mean you need to leave your viewpoint on homosexuality and abortion out of these discussions. We are a product of what we believe and if any of us leaves those beliefs and convictions out of this or any discussion we have nothing left to discuss.

Doctors Kill 4,200 Babies Today in America

arnijodi — Fri, 11 May 2007 07:11:56 -0500

“Today, over 500 Doctors legally inserted dilating rods into the uterus of 4200 mothers across the United States.